« Polarity Management | Main | "The Church, Embracing Grace, and Racisim" Scot McKnight »

Sep 28, 2005


Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.


Flame on man - these are some of the "emergent" issues we're gonna have to face sooner or later. RPS

will spotts

"(Warning: I have great passion about these issues. Potential flaming ahead.)"

I won't give you cause. I agree with just about everything you said here. (Novel way of expressing it, but it makes the point quite well.)


"Ministry is not defined by what we do. It is defined by WHO we are doing for!" That's it, there can be no separation between Sunday morning and Monday morning.

Denis Hancock

Well, it got cold enough to put on the flame-retardant underwear this morning, so I am ready for any flaming you wish to send my way.

I was ordained in 1974 as a ruling elder, and when I attended Prebytery, it was in the company of roughly equal numbers of ruling elders and teaching elders. In 1983 the names changed to "Elder" and "Minister of Word and Sacrement", thus widening the gulf between laity and clergy.

I still think in terms of ruling and teaching elders, and I wish it would once again become common use.


Well said, but do I detect a wee chip on shoulder? The day that the church decided (unwisely) to join the academics, elders became divided between "real" elders and the rest of us. But we continue to serve our God together.

Michael Kruse

Denis and Dave, I agree the decision about renaming to "Elder" and "Minister of Word and Sacrament" has been harmful, but I am dealing with a MUCH larger picture here. Furthermore, my issue is not power and authority; it is mission. The point I am trying to make here is that each person on the face of the planet has a call. Baptism is ordination into THE ministry; Ministry being ANY action in response to God's call (i.e, bookkeeper, farmer, nursing, etc.). Ecclesiastical offices, what ever we want to call them, exist to equip people for the ministry God has given them. Congregations are not raw materials for building ecclesiastical structures.

If being incensed at structures that negate and trivialize God’s personal calling for the vast majority is having a chip on my shoulder, then it is probably more like enormous boulder. **grin** Hang with me I a while. Hopefully what I am saying will become clearer, but I invite everyone to think in terms of what these issues mean for mission, not ecclesiastical power.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.


Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

Your email address:

Powered by FeedBlitz

Kruse Kronicle on Kindle

Check It Out