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Nov 04, 2005

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lorrell

Finally, a barnaism I fit into. Yes, I am less involved in my local church and in so doing am probably doing more ministry. It feels as though many churches, including ours, are merely "playing church". Yes, yes, and yes. I can relate to this and am somewhat relieved, really, to hear someone else make a comment about it...

will spotts

I suspect Barna's observation is correct.

I frankly cannot envision what the church will look like, but I think it may bear little resemblence to what it is now.

I don't believe this is a bad thing -- our organizations may not survive, but I'm absolutely convinced the "church" (as in the body of Christ) will thrive.

From my point of view, I would stress proceeding with some caution -- I think the "reformers" were right -- "the Church reformed and always reforming according to the Word of God."

Michael Kruse

You are not alone Lorrell and the number of people like you is growing by the minute.

Michael Kruse

"A time to build up and a time to tear down."

I think Barna has something to say to Presbyterians. The right blames declining membership on the left because of their politics. The left blames the right because their exclusive attitudes. Meanwhile, a major cultural shift is going on. It is as if it were 1920 and we are having a civil war within the buggy-whip industry over which of us is responsible for the decline in sales.

Rod Campbell

I am eagerly anticipating to read George Barna's book. If nothing else this book will draw attention towards what is going on within the Church.

As a leader in an evangelical congregation God called me out a number of years ago as a Revolutionary. I didn't know at the time that there would be a name given to this, nor did I know what God was planning to do with me as a result of what He was teaching me.

These traits today look nothing like what I was experiencing in the role of leader or church member. What people are experiencing in what we call the local church" or denomination is only the crumbs of what Christ wants for us to experience.

To truly experience what Christ has to offer the body one must revolt from man's leadership and surrender to Christ's leadership. Far to many people are under the lordship of a belief system rather than to Christ. Christ must be our only authority.

I like what your posters are saying. The body of Christ, the Church is surviving regardless of the failing of the organized institutional church system that is in place with its many different labels.

Will is correct to say that we must approach this with caution. Above all we must seek what God intends for His Church. In order to do so we have to take a very serious look at what we are participating in and how it relates to Christ's established course for His Church. How much of what we are doing is really man made with Christ's name attached to it.

Many people have a sincere desire to follow Christ and are completely unaware that they are more sold out to belief systems of man than they are to Christ.

Lorrell, I understand your comments because I was there as a leader in an evangelical church. Prior to that I participated in many ways in local churches for years. God placed it so heavy on my head that what we were doing was really not what He intends for it to be like. We are not to be captives to another person's so called "ministry." We are only to be slaves to Christ. All those years that I struggling wondering why things didn't work out in local churches and why people just didn't get along proves to me that Christ was not being allowed to be the one in charge.

The more you become a Revolutionary, the more you will not be able to tolerate man restricting the body of Christ the way he does. Restricted to styles, traditions, symbols, rituals, programs etc. These are precisely the things that keep people from Christ not direct them to Him.

Christ wants to free people not hole them for randsom until they fulfill the obligations of a particular congregation.

It's also a dangerous journey in the sense that you will understand the heart of God more. You will feel the rejection that Christ felt, especially from those who proclaim to know Him. But it is worth it to see how the Church really operates with Him as the Spirit leading and drawing His sheep together, for His purpose, not for man's purpose.

Michael Kruse

"Far to many people are under the lordship of a belief system rather than to Christ."

Well said, Rod. I am not ready to throw rituals, tradtions, and institutions overboard. However, like Calvin and other Reformers, I think we have some major house cleaning to do. I'd rather do a "deep cleaning" the burn it to the ground. Of course Luther tried that and look where it got him. **grin**

gruntled

Jesus built a church -- a social organization which brought people together to spread and live the gospel. I don't see how Barna's revolutionaries can be more than a passing phase in the life of Christian or of the Christian community. Any church will have to be an organization, and any organization will have some kind of ordinary human power dynamics. I don't see an alternative.

zane anderson

Barna's "Revolution" will be discussed this Friday night (2-3-06) on the nationwide Moody Broadcasting Network. "Open Line" is a call-in show which is aired at 8-8:55 pm CT. The phone number is 312-329-4460.

For station and time of broadcast information see http://openlineradio.org.

The programs are archived for download if you're unable to tune in.

Michael Kruse

Thanks for the heads up, Zane.

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